Travelling back to 2003, so did you make money/wiser/grew ?

How would you assess the popularity of watches as investments now and how has this evolved?

 

The popularity per se has not changed. The market as a whole sees better and more liquid ways of increasing monetary values of their assets. This means shares and financial instruments.

However, what has changed is that a privileged segment of the market divides investments into money separate from wealth.

What are the factors driving this trend?

Possibly it is “cool” to be EDUCATED and YOUNG. And GREEN.

Noting that R Buckminster Fuller said “effective exploratory investment (of the mind and one’s time) is to give man increased wealth”. EDUCATED.

This includes broadly what Buckminster Fuller defines as “future influence”, which among them are education, perspectives, culture and science.YOUNG.

 These and occasionally money, are increased with a passion for understanding complex watches. Why? Because the watch are among the rare surviving machines that need neither electricity nor fossil fuel. GREEN.

 

What are the factors affecting investment potential/value in watches?

The market for rare, labor intensive watches are growing at a rate that can be measured by the number of used and grey market watch dealers that have sprung up both as brick and mortar shops and as internet shops. The growth is exponential.

 

 The demand has not even begun to grow…the industry is still tapping only “known” markets…I am not speaking of geographical markets, but of intellectual ones….at this point, there are CEOs and PhDs walking around who do not know of Dufour, Vianney Halter or MB&F.

It is like finding a chairman of a listed company who does not know the differences between basic red and white wines…the education has not even begun.

THAT is the situation for 95% of the population in FIRST world economies..As far as watches are concerned.

 

The education is growing at a rate faster than the supply of good watches. It may mean that within the next 5 years, just as the economy is robust, the demand for the good stuff will be incredible. By then, many unknown names may be highly sought after. Established names will have a bigger market of the commercial segment, with the small makers cornering the ultra high market, similar to supercar makers of today.

 

If one is looking to invest in a watch, what sorts of watches should you look at (in terms of brands and/or features?) Which of the brands are ‘foolproof’ investments – and why?

 

To answer that, one must frame the mind and then look at it from the perspectives of other disciplines of music, art and wine.

There will always be new music, new art, new dishes of food. Watch collecting is exactly like that. Once understood, it is very absorbing…like in classical music and fine wine. With very different and complex dynamics, but equally or more intriguing.

 

Most people see only the superficial aspect of collecting. Limited editions!

In reality all products that are unique are limited. Hence, one must search first and foremost for a product that is unique, or is not to be replicated at lower cost.

That may be the ONLY worthwhile factor.

The other factors are moot points.

Beauty.

Rarity.

Demand.
Longevity.

 

How and why do investment watches retain or increase their value over the years?

 Now...this article is a copy of an interview made in 2004 or so...look at the prices today, and then when you asked in 2004.

Retain value: if they continue to be exclusive, rare, cool (don’t forget that they have to be worn), and cannot be replicated.

Increase value: rare and cool.

Those are the absolute factors.
Discussion or arguments:

Well, one can say that the definition of investment watches is a moot point.

The public, or even “old hands” at investment watches will say ONLY PATEK PHILIPPE and ROLEX can be investments.

I don’t disagree with the selection of these 2 brands…BUT I disagree with the EXCLUSIVITY of all other brands or makers.

 

In fact, if you look at cars, art, wine, property, musical instruments and my favorite…TEDDY BEARS, you will see that those people who picked “blue chip” pieces are right in their estimate of returns. BUT they never make hit the “home run”..ie the the small maker that CANNOT be a blue chip stock because it is NOT “publicly listed on the main board”.

 

How do men’s and women’s watches compare in investment potential?
The watchmakers are MOST definitely not making EXCLUSIVELY male gender watches.

They make women’s watches. They make watches…for BOTH male/female.

Henceforth, non gender watches, or to the uninitiated, “male” watches are superior.


 Which are the women's watches that are worth investing in?


Lange Arcade in small size.

FP Journe Divine.

Small Patek 5059 perpetual calendar (men’s, but so small..that no man would wear it today)


Rolex Yachtmaster “boy size” platinum steel.


Rolex GMT “Pepsi Cola” in sapphires and rubies.


Bulgari Scuba Pro Diagono Gold


Cartier Santos Big sizes for men ( usually worn by women)


Panerais in small sizes


MB&F 3


MB&F 2


Vianney Halter Antiqua


How have the value of women’s watches evolved over the years, what are the factors influencing this value?


Not as fast as men’s.


Men buy toys. Women buy jewelry..those are the factors.


Women see art, recognise it, faster than men.


Women are NOT interested in complications (majority at least), hence the marketing bounces off their brains.


What’s the status of the investment value of women’s watches today?


Today??? ZERO.


The watches that women have bought…they have not entered into the resale market YET!!! Today, one sees the watches men have bought for their mistresses, ex wives etc…or women who have dumped unwanted pieces into the resale sector. BAD values.


Tomorrow. Totally different.

 What about independents – are they worth investing in? Why/why not?

Independants?!?! Of course they are good…just PICK the right one.

Unlike brands, independents don’t market or leverage on their brand..they sell their work.

So..some will sell you fake work.

Some will sell real work.

The real work..you have to pick the GOOD stuff. AND..as in supply/demand, they will deliver BETTER margins.

Year end of 2012...there never is anything that would be total recall!

But it is sure fun to simply use images to remember this year.

 The weather!!!

 The return of Rolex as a serious watch, while holding on to their position as a real time money substitute, probably one of the only man made things that can be used in barter trading with relative ease.
ESPECIALLY if you buy them in platinum, in the exclusive platinum only, presidential form.

 The slow down in an over grown market of wonderful watches...sad, but inevitable, and this is always that part of an era, which makes these watches collectable...again if they are well made objects...like the little known Nubeo , with their ever beautiful organic aesthetic.

 The birth of ANY new Porsche 911 is always a marker or historic date in history.
The new 991 is NO exception...and is the very best 911 ever made in its whole history of 49 years.
The new platform was/is so good, that for once...I bought a car within 10 minutes of "deciding" and a cabrio version of a 911...usually scorned...but in this case, VERY good..and firm, and as good as the hardtop. Reason? I can load stuff into the car, and close the roof.
Making this the most useable sports car ever.

Corthay's enviable shoes.
And the world's notable acceptance of the wristwatch into art.

Don't miss:
http://bernardcheong.com/blog/

MB&F HM1 ,the machine 1 from Max Busser & Friends

It seems like years ago, back to 2007.
This is my own personal HM1.
It sees REGULAR use, and it would always remind me of the days gone by, when owning such an unorthodox machine was so rare.

Today, I was present at a transaction, a resale, of one of these beauties...not mine!
But one such, in white gold.

Price??? $238,888 singapore dollars!

Now, that is an investment..the watch was in totally worn condition, and really scuffed!
BUT..there are NO machines left for this model, except 1 piece in the gallery in Geneva.

I won't be selling mine, but I had a chance to see my own against my oen RM02.
The HM1 wins hands down in the "status" and "attention" department.

Probably because it was designed that way. No regrets buying it, although it did cost an arm and leg, and the price of 3 platinum president Rolex!

The Rolex President Platinum 41

Did I spell that right?

278 grammes of 950pt.

$65,000 sgd. Mybe less.

Ice Blue defined dial and hands to let those who may know...know.

#@%& it is HALF or onethird the price of a Freak/Antiqua/Ulysse Nardin complication/De Bethune etc.

It will HARDLY if EVER show up a scratch.

It has formidable resales at a pawnshop (heaven forbid) but true. You can profit even.

And mind you...I bought one.

This is what I usually buy.

(but this 41mm large sized Rolex is 50% to 20% of the price of these)

Resale Values of wristwatches in November 2012

The ONLY times I made a profit were the times I bought with no intention of reselling.
Vice versa...I can't sell at all some wathces which I thought would be profitable...Rolex and Patek.
Right now, these brands are just FULL of grey traders and resales have slumped so low.
Unless you have the "right" watch, which is almost always the one you don't wish to sell.

Why YOU as a guy may add another 10 to 20 years to your life....with quality

Life is sustained and prolonged by this...and it has/has not been totally and subjectively proven.

AND click here for more things that dawned on me while I was wondering what to do with money.

http://bernardcheong.com/blog/

Thinking about a career? A new car? New life partner? Look back...

After school...life REALLY begins.
AND....
in my own experience, it really pays off to attend your old school campus, university, once every ten years, to measure how far you have come.

What is the PRICE of the Oracle CD2500Mk3? Or the Metronome Kalista Reference CD?

 The Oracle CD2500 mk3 today, in 2012, will cost according to the internet searches: in the ballpark of $27,000 sgd or $22,000 usd.

The Kalista, altho less detailed and faired lesser, will cost over $100,000 Sgd to $78,000 usd.

By the year 2032, 20 years from today, BOTH may cost $5,000 usd or sgd.

Technology is expensive...but it is like wine. Drink it.

Watches are for the more conservative in spending.
Like me...my cost for a Richard Mille was $110,000 sgd or $78,000 usd in 2005.
Or $38,000sgd to $28,000 usd for a Freak in 2003.

ALL of these babies gave me my money back!
And more.

One anomaly...my Porsche 911.
Most people lost money.
But due to taxes and certifications...my change from the 911 (997.2) bought brand new from AD in 2009, to a similar brand new AD 911 (991 cabrio)...made april 2012, bought August 2012.
Lost me only a mere $2,000 sgd.

Plus...I got to own the best 911 ever made, including the best cabrio 911...minus flex and old "flaws".

Life is good.

High End Audio, exotic cars and exotic wristwatches versus GIRLS

First a link to
http://pinterest.com/tanseaway/hi-fi/
Then:

Given all of the above..one may or will be drawn away from even all types of unfaithful behavior!

or

Addictions are GOOD...learn about your own. Harness and control it.

Highs are great..learning to parachute down slow...and go up again...with GOOD health as a PRIME directive.

Even if it is shopping.

Take the antiques of the future...like a Krell KPS25 sc

This thing is now over 20 years old!

For more addictions:

http://bernardcheong.com/general/addictions-treadmills-timings-tv-work-and-caffeine/

INDULGE and you will not regret on the last days of your life...

Shallow philosophy from a materialistic man.
That's me!!!!

But what the heck...objects and things are MORE faithful and reliable...if chosen well.

Plus...they will look after your money...as you spend it!

See
http://bernardcheong.com/general/if-you-like-me-reaching-saturation-porsches-richard-milles-dalis-and-you-are-not-overflowing-with-cash-and-need-some-injection-of-an-unattainable-goal-to-drive-you-to-even-work/

PLUS THIS

PLUS THIS

And this....

Is so meaningless to those who excel in sports, mountain climbing, cycling, studies...but hey...everyone lies.
These are more fun.

AND even more fun if you wanted them when you were once poor.
Such as:

The Krell Audio Standard2...once the price of a Porsche in 1993.
Today...$12,000.sgd.

Live longer, be extreme when shopping for anything

Never even be lukewarm.

You will never regret it.

Unless you spent more than you had, and even so...

I spotted THIS...made in canada..not Japan or France or Germany.

This machine is ranked by audiophile nuts like me as among the very best the world may have to offer.

Not only in sound...but if paired with some of the very best amplifiers in the very best conditions...with the speakers that would match your room and seat of choice...
The Oracle CD2500 Mark3 by December...you WILL see this monster in my room...filling the air with music as you examine works of watchmaking...yes..ONE giant step to better watch collecting!!!

Remember..click on each picture to examine the FINE watchmaking finish to the SOLID billet of aluminium...and imagine it when I place it on my specially made table...yes..the one cut from a block of 3 tons of 316L stainless steel!!!!

You do not need steriods to be Lance Armstrong!!!

Now, as you have browsed these pictures..go into detail by examining the parts:

Now...you are looking at the VERY same equivalent of a Richard Mille Tourbillon.

Or a URWERK or an MB&F.

Only it costs a tad less...at $15,000 USD.

You still have to budget another $100,000 for the amps and speakers.

And..errr...another $1,000usd per square foot for a room that is at least 14 by 18 square feet...or if you go "near field" listening, then 10 by 12 feet.

Live LONG...!!!!